Macintosh Classic: Floppy assistance

[JTM]

I recently obtained a working Macintosh Classic. (My first Mac!) It has
minimal software on it, and came with no original disks. I would really
like to play around with this machine. I am quite literate in all things
PC, and I can get around the classic Mac interface just fine, but I still
have some questions (mainly related to the floppy disks/drive):

1) I found some free classic Mac programs online, and would like to put them
on this machine. Only problem is that I use a PC to connect to the 'net, so
my only option to transfer files is via a floppy disk. Is it possible for
the Macintosh to read a floppy disk if I download the programs onto it with
my Windows PC?

2) I've tried to initialize a 1.44 MB floppy in the Macintosh, but
initialization fails every time. I've tried several disks, each with the
same result. I am fairly certain the drive is a 1.44 MB drive, and not a
800 KB drive. Is there a way to find out within the system, or will I need
to crack open the case?

Much thanks. I am quite anxious to play around this this dinosaur of a
computer!

[Tom Stiller]

Post by JTM
I recently obtained a working Macintosh Classic. (My first Mac!) It has
minimal software on it, and came with no original disks. I would really
like to play around with this machine. I am quite literate in all things
PC, and I can get around the classic Mac interface just fine, but I still
1) I found some free classic Mac programs online, and would like to put them
on this machine. Only problem is that I use a PC to connect to the 'net, so
my only option to transfer files is via a floppy disk. Is it possible for
the Macintosh to read a floppy disk if I download the programs onto it with
my Windows PC?

Only if the applications are transferred in one of the formats used to
store mac files on foreign filesystems (e.g. MacBinary, HQX, etc.). You
will need an application like StuffIt on the mac to recover the Mac data
structures from these formats.

Post by JTM
2) I've tried to initialize a 1.44 MB floppy in the Macintosh, but
initialization fails every time. I've tried several disks, each with the
same result. I am fairly certain the drive is a 1.44 MB drive, and not a
800 KB drive. Is there a way to find out within the system, or will I need
to crack open the case?

The R/W head may be dirty or misaligned.

Post by JTM
Much thanks. I am quite anxious to play around this this dinosaur of a
computer!

[JTM]

Post by Tom Stiller
Only if the applications are transferred in one of the formats used to
store mac files on foreign filesystems (e.g. MacBinary, HQX, etc.). You
will need an application like StuffIt on the mac to recover the Mac data
structures from these formats.

The files I've found are .sit.bin format. I assume that these are mac file
formats? Where can I find StuffIt for the Classic?

So I assume that I need to do the following, in order:

1) Get floppy drive working
2) Initialize a floppy disk on the Macintosh
3) Put initialized disk in PC, download StuffIT
4) Install StuffIT on the Mac
5) Download programs onto Mac-initialized floppy from PC
6) Install programs on Mac

Correct?

[Matti Haveri]

Post by JTM
1) Get floppy drive working

68000-mac-faq has info how to download StuffIt Expander on a PC and
write is as a Mac executable to a Mac HD floppy.

Alternatively you can ask a friend or a user group to write StuffIt
Expander (and System 6 or 7.0.1* or 7.5.5) floppies for you.

After this the subsequent downloads are easier because you can decode
them on the Mac.

<http://www.sjoki.uta.fi/~shmhav/68000.txt>

Check also mac-internet-faq at:

<http://www.sjoki.uta.fi/~shmhav/mac-internet-faq.txt>

[Michael Vilain]

Post by JTM
I recently obtained a working Macintosh Classic. (My first Mac!) It has
minimal software on it, and came with no original disks. I would really
like to play around with this machine. I am quite literate in all things
PC, and I can get around the classic Mac interface just fine, but I still
1) I found some free classic Mac programs online, and would like to put them
on this machine. Only problem is that I use a PC to connect to the 'net, so
my only option to transfer files is via a floppy disk. Is it possible for
the Macintosh to read a floppy disk if I download the programs onto it with
my Windows PC?
2) I've tried to initialize a 1.44 MB floppy in the Macintosh, but
initialization fails every time. I've tried several disks, each with the
same result. I am fairly certain the drive is a 1.44 MB drive, and not a
800 KB drive. Is there a way to find out within the system, or will I need
to crack open the case?
Much thanks. I am quite anxious to play around this this dinosaur of a
computer!

You didn't specify what model and specifics (disk and memory) of this
"classic Macintosh" you have, so there's only general help we can
provide to you. That's pretty standard among newsgroups, which as a
"quite literate" PC person you should know already.

So, can this system initialize 800K Mac floppies? If not, you'll
probably need to replace the drive. Some systems didn't have 1.44MB
floppy drives. I know I had to buy one for my MacSE. If you're going
to crack the case, you'll need a torx wrench for the early systems.

Does it have any sort of network card or PCI slots? If not, then you'll
proably have to build a Mac RS-232 null modem cable to 'download' Mac
binaries through the serial port via Kermit. The pin-outs can be found
around the net. If you're a PC person, you know about Kermit, unless
you're too young. Google for it.

Gee, you must be between classes or something with all this free time on
your hands. Have fun...

[Christian]

Post by Michael Vilain

Post by JTM
I recently obtained a working Macintosh Classic. (My first Mac!)

You didn't specify what model and specifics (disk and memory) of this
"classic Macintosh" you have,

See the specifications for the Mac Classic at
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112176. There also was a
"Classic II" and a "Colour Classic" model.

Post by Michael Vilain
So, can this system initialize 800K Mac floppies? If not, you'll
probably need to replace the drive. Some systems didn't have 1.44MB
floppy drives.

This were the Original Macintosh (128k, 512k, MacPlus and some of the
SEs; not sure of the early models of the Mac II) did not have 1.44M
drives, some had 800k drives (double-sided), the earliest models had
400k drives (single-sided).

Christian.

[Bev A. Kupf]

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 07:11:41 -0800,

Post by Michael Vilain

Post by JTM
I recently obtained a working Macintosh Classic. (My first Mac!)

You didn't specify what model and specifics (disk and memory)

You're correct - he didn't specify memory. But surely he did specify
model - "Macintosh Classic", and therefore the disk - this model shipped
with a 1.4 MB SuperDrive and a 40 MB hard disk. The onboard RAM was 1 MB,
the maximum RAM was 4 MB. Details at:
<http://www.apple-history.com/frames/body.php?page=gallery&model=classic>

When this Mac was introduced, I thought it was well and truly behind its
time.

It should be able to read 1.44 MB DOS FAT-formatted floppy disks (if the
appropriate extension is loaded).

As Tom Stiller suggested earlier in this thread, if it doesn't, perhaps
the drive is bad or needs to be cleaned, or have the heads adjusted.

[JTM]

Post by Michael Vilain
You didn't specify what model and specifics (disk and memory) of this
"classic Macintosh" you have

As I said, it is a Macintosh Classic. That IS the model. See
http://www.lowendmac.com/compact/classic.shtml

As for HD & memory, I don't think that has anything to do with my questions,
so I didn't take the time to note any of them. No need to be patronizing.

Post by Michael Vilain
So, can this system initialize 800K Mac floppies?

Since I don't have any 800K floppies to test, I simulated one by covering
the hole on a 1.44M disk. (Yes, this won't always work, but I gave it a
shot). Initialization still failed.

Post by Michael Vilain
Does it have any sort of network card or PCI slots?

Serial only.

Post by Michael Vilain
Gee, you must be between classes or something with all this free time on

your hands. Have fun...

I'm not a student. I work 40 hrs a week; that gives me 128 hours to eat,
sleep, and play.

[Bev A. Kupf]

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:42:35 -0600,

Post by JTM
Since I don't have any 800K floppies to test, I simulated one by covering
the hole on a 1.44M disk. (Yes, this won't always work, but I gave it a
shot). Initialization still failed.

Never known it not to (in a Mac). Sounds like a bad drive.

[Philo D]

Post by JTM
As I said, it is a Macintosh Classic. That IS the model. See
http://www.lowendmac.com/compact/classic.shtml

So it comes with 1.4M floppy.
Thus it seems your floppy drive is bad.
This has a floppy port on the back, so if you find one of the old
external 1.4M floppies for sale, you could use that rather than
reparing the internal floppy.

Here is an interesting item from that page...
€ estimated current value, base unit: US$30

[s***@temple.edu]

Post by JTM
2) I've tried to initialize a 1.44 MB floppy in the Macintosh, but
initialization fails every time. I've tried several disks, each with the
same result. I am fairly certain the drive is a 1.44 MB drive, and not a
800 KB drive. Is there a way to find out within the system, or will I need
to crack open the case?

Try covering the write density hole on a floppy disk with a
piece of celephane tape to see if the disk initializes. If
the disk initializes that way, you know you have a 800KB drive.

[Geoffrey]

Post by JTM
I recently obtained a working Macintosh Classic. (My first Mac!)

Ahh, what a little beast that was.

Post by JTM
1) ... Is it possible for the Macintosh to read a floppy disk if I
download the programs onto it with my Windows PC?

Yes, provided you stick to downloading things which end in .sit or .hqx
or .bin, *and* that you have a copy of Stuffit Expander already on your
Classic.

Post by JTM
2) I've tried to initialize a 1.44 MB floppy in the Macintosh, but
initialization fails every time.

Apple used a Sony-designed mechanism that's capable of variable-speed
platter rotation as well as having mechanically-assisted disc insert and
power ejection -- it also uses a single connector for both data and
power. This means you can't replace it with a PC-style drive.

When you go to format a floppy, how many media format choices are you
given? The full compliment (depending on what System software you have
installed) covers Mac 1.44 Mb, Mac 800k, DOS 1.44 Mb, DOS 720k and
ProDOS 800k. If you aren't give the choices for the DOS formats, then
the Classic doesn't have "PC Exchange" installed. If you aren't give a
choice of sizes at all, the Classic has determined that it is fitted
with an 800k drive (non-standard, but will work) and thus can't read HD
floppies nor DOS-formatted media at all.

The biggest problem with Apple's older floppy mechanisms is that they
end up serving dust-filter duty, and fine dust particles build up in the
lubricating gel, eventually causing the drive to fail completely.

When you say initialising fails, *where* in the initialisation does it
actually fail? Does it chug its way through a single pass and _then_
complain? Does it complain almost immediately?


Geoffrey

(remove EXCESS BAGGAGE to reply via mail)