[OT News] Apple Car dead ... again

[Your Name]

I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared
dead and resurrected. No real surprise though since a proper
self-driving car is never goign to work and most people don't want one
anyway, and there's nothing really that Apple can add to for a normal
car (electric or otherwise). Same with the Sony car.


Decade-old Apple Car project may be completely dead
---------------------------------------------------
A report on Tuesday claims that Apple's long-running car project,
also known as "Project Titan", has been killed.

Details are scant at the moment, but in a report on Tuesday,
Bloomberg Mark Gurman says that the Apple Car program is finally
completely gone.

Apple is said to have announced the death of the project on
Tuesday, surprising the 2000 workers said to be working on the
project. Apple Chief Operating officer Jeff Williams and Vice
President Kevin Lynch made the announcement.

Some of the employees are said to be moving to Apple's
artificial intelligence development and research houses under
the leadership of John Giannandrea. It's not clear where the rest
will go, or if there are any relevant offices for them to move to.

The decision is said to have been made by senior Apple leadership
within the last few weeks. AppleInsider has reached out for
comment - but we aren't expecting to hear back.


Apple Car - a long and winding road
The earliest mentions of Apple's automotive project were in fall
2014, when AppleInsider was informed that Apple was in the
process of recruiting engineers. Those engineers were said to
have been hired for a project called "Titan," the rumors were not
able to be verified, so they were not published at the time.

Months later, the details of the rumors were corroborated by
other sources and outlets, indicating there was some truth to
what was claimed, as well as the "Project Titan" name.

By March 2015, it was believed Apple was working on an electric
car in offices in Sunnyvale, California. Said to be the home of
a market research firm called "SixtyEight," the building was
apparently known internally as "SG5," and was among other
Apple-run offices. AppleInsider broke the story by visiting the
location and examining the buildings, and related filings.

The building was a few minutes away from Apple's then-HQ at
1 Infinite Loop, and sources claimed Apple was actively receiving
shipments related to the work there. Overall, Apple's offices
consisted of seven buildings, making up almost 300,000 square
feet, though many were used for other tasks.

One at street number "175" seemingly didn't have a listed tenant,
despite not being on the market for months at that time, and
included a 4,239-square-foot "repair garage" among building
permits for tenant improvements. An in-person visit revealed it
to be the home of "SixtyEight Research."

The secrecy of the project at the offices apparently extended to
Apple employees being told to turn their badges around when
entering the building. Guests visiting the location were given
badges that were identical to those used at Apple's HQ, but
without an Apple logo.

The use of frosted glass and visible security cameras suggests a
level of secrecy beyond a typical research firm. A piece of paper
taped to the front door informed drivers the company's lobby was
moved to a different address, a building leased by Apple.

"SixtyEight LLC" was registered in Delaware in March 2014, then
licensed as a foreign corporation in California in November 2014.
Given Apple's historical use of shell corporations to hide
secret projects, it is plausible that this was also the case.

The company also paid to import a 1957 Fiat Multipla 600 from the
U.K. to the U.S. Apple Design chief Jony Ive was said to have a
soft spot for the Fiat 500, which could be another connection to
Apple.

In a wide-ranging report from Bloomberg in December 2022, the
Apple Car is thought to be taking longer to produce, due to
Apple making changes to the project.

Rather than a full-blown self-driving system, Apple was instead
planning on a design of car that is more conventional, complete
with steering wheel and pedals. Fully-autonomous driving would
still be available, but only on highways, the sources claimed.


A launch was also pencilled in for 2026.
As well as a change in timescale, Apple was also apparently
altering its pricing plans too. Initially expecting to sell the
Apple Car for more than $120,000, Apple was thought to be
planning for it to cost consumers less than $100,000.

Wedbush analyst Daniel Ives said in June 2023 that Apple Car is
on the way, with a 2026 launch prediction.

He previously, in February 2021, said there was an 85% chance of
Apple formally announcing a strategic car partnership within the
following three to six months, which evidently didn't happen.

In a September 2023 forecast, Ming-Chi Kuo claims he has lost
visibility on the Apple Car, and doesn't have clarity on when it
will enter production.

"If Apple doesn't adopt an acquisition strategy to enter the
automotive market, I doubt that the Apple Car can go into mass
production within the next years," Kuo tweeted.



<https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/02/27/decade-old-apple-car-project-may-be-completely-dead>

[Alan Browne]

I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared dead
and resurrected. No real surprise though since a proper self-driving car
is never goign to work and most people don't want one anyway, and
there's nothing really that Apple can add to for a normal car (electric
or otherwise). Same with the Sony car.
    Decade-old Apple Car project may be completely dead
    ---------------------------------------------------
    A report on Tuesday claims that Apple's long-running <snipped>

Too bad. OTOH, the EV market is getting ever crowded and some EV's are
truly good value and well executed.

Further, China is shipping EV's by the boatload. Prices in this space
are tumbling as competition ramps up. 2024 is setting out as an ebb
year for EV sales.

PS: Don't post entire articles - just a para or two with the salient
facts and a link. Yes, I've mentioned this to you before...

[RocketSurgeon]

I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared dead
and resurrected. No real surprise though since a proper self-driving car
is never goign to work and most people don't want one anyway, and
there's nothing really that Apple can add to for a normal car (electric
or otherwise). Same with the Sony car.

<< Snipped bits out >>
Self driving car will *never* work!?!

A parochial statement if ever.

[Alan]

I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared dead
and resurrected. No real surprise though since a proper self-driving car
is never goign to work and most people don't want one anyway, and
there's nothing really that Apple can add to for a normal car (electric
or otherwise). Same with the Sony car.

Wow.

"since a proper self-driving car is never going to work"

Completely and utterly wrong. It's going to take longer than people
expect, but self-driving cars are going to be perfected.

"most people don't want one anyway"

So "most people" never use a taxi or an Uber?

[Ant]

Post by Alan

I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared dead
and resurrected. No real surprise though since a proper self-driving car
is never goign to work and most people don't want one anyway, and
there's nothing really that Apple can add to for a normal car (electric
or otherwise). Same with the Sony car.

Wow.
"since a proper self-driving car is never going to work"
Completely and utterly wrong. It's going to take longer than people
expect, but self-driving cars are going to be perfected.

I am waiting for KITT or even KARR. ;)

[Alan Browne]

Post by Alan

Post by Your Name
I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared
dead and resurrected. No real surprise though since a proper
self-driving car is never goign to work and most people don't want one
anyway, and there's nothing really that Apple can add to for a normal
car (electric or otherwise). Same with the Sony car.

Wow.
"since a proper self-driving car is never going to work"
Completely and utterly wrong. It's going to take longer than people
expect, but self-driving cars are going to be perfected.

Tesla is already at diminishing returns on advances per $1B spent and
the cars are not completely self driving and need constant driver
supervision. Most Tesla accidents are because the driver did not do his
duty to stay vigilant. (And Tesla keep adding "attention checking"
bells and whistles...)

In various test drives you see the Tesla cars making some incredible
goofs (so called "full self-driving"). And that's on dry, well marked
roads. I'll put a link to a good one below ... a warts and all drive of
about 22 minutes[1]

Throw some snowy weather in there on roads with all the markings obscured...

Still, where they're at is quite good. How far it can go ... TBD.


An NYT article yesterday[2] suggests that Apple's problem here was mainly:

- lack of a clear defined outcome.
... Kept oscillating depending who was in charge at the time.

- expected high price

- expected low margins

... in an EV world that is seeing prices falling as competition heats up.

Same article also claimed that Apple and Musk discussed Apple acquiring
Tesla. Elon did not answer a request for comment on that.

[1]

[2]
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/28/technology/behind-the-apple-car-dead.html?unlocked_article_code=1.ZE0.igHK.x1rqqGJIEcfO&smid=url-share

[Alan]

Post by Alan Browne

Post by Alan

Post by Your Name
I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared
dead and resurrected. No real surprise though since a proper
self-driving car is never goign to work and most people don't want
one anyway, and there's nothing really that Apple can add to for a
normal car (electric or otherwise). Same with the Sony car.

Wow.
"since a proper self-driving car is never going to work"
Completely and utterly wrong. It's going to take longer than people
expect, but self-driving cars are going to be perfected.

Tesla is already at diminishing returns on advances per $1B spent and
the cars are not completely self driving and need constant driver
supervision.  Most Tesla accidents are because the driver did not do his
duty to stay vigilant.  (And Tesla keep adding "attention checking"
bells and whistles...)

OK. And?

Post by Alan Browne
In various test drives you see the Tesla cars making some incredible
goofs (so called "full self-driving").  And that's on dry, well marked
roads.  I'll put a link to a good one below ... a warts and all drive of
about 22 minutes[1]
Throw some snowy weather in there on roads with all the markings obscured...
Still, where they're at is quite good.  How far it can go ... TBD.

This is literally like declaring that supersonic flight is "never going
to work"...

...10 years after the Wright brothers first flew.

[Tyrone]

Post by Your Name
I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared
dead and resurrected. No real surprise though since a proper
self-driving car is never goign to work and most people don't want one
anyway, and there's nothing really that Apple can add to for a normal
car (electric or otherwise). Same with the Sony car.

Is anyone really surprised by this? An Apple car makes as much sense as a
General Motors cell phone.

How about a Microsoft lawnmower? Anyone interested in a Samsung bacon
cheeseburger?

Of course not. Whoever kept this absurd project going at Apple for all these
years is a poster child for The Peter Principle.

[Alan]

Post by Tyrone

Post by Your Name
I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared
dead and resurrected. No real surprise though since a proper
self-driving car is never goign to work and most people don't want one
anyway, and there's nothing really that Apple can add to for a normal
car (electric or otherwise). Same with the Sony car.

Is anyone really surprised by this? An Apple car makes as much sense as a
General Motors cell phone.

That's exactly what Blackberry said.

[Tyrone]

Post by Alan

Post by Tyrone

Post by Your Name
I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared
dead and resurrected. No real surprise though since a proper
self-driving car is never goign to work and most people don't want one
anyway, and there's nothing really that Apple can add to for a normal
car (electric or otherwise). Same with the Sony car.

Is anyone really surprised by this? An Apple car makes as much sense as a
General Motors cell phone.

That's exactly what Blackberry said.

Blackberry said that an Apple car makes as much sense as a
General Motors cell phone?

So they agree with me. Great.

Thanks.

[Your Name]

Post by Tyrone

Post by Alan

Post by Tyrone

Post by Your Name
I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared
dead and resurrected. No real surprise though since a proper
self-driving car is never goign to work and most people don't want one
anyway, and there's nothing really that Apple can add to for a normal
car (electric or otherwise). Same with the Sony car.

Is anyone really surprised by this? An Apple car makes as much sense as a
General Motors cell phone.

That's exactly what Blackberry said.

Blackberry said that an Apple car makes as much sense as a
General Motors cell phone?
So they agree with me. Great.
Thanks.

BlackBerry would say something like that. After being nearly bankrupted
by Apple's iPhone, BlackBerry got out of the cellphone business
completely ... and into security solutions and "connected car"
operating systems. The last thing they want is for Apple to start doing
that as well. :-)

[Alan]

Post by Tyrone

Post by Alan

Post by Tyrone

Post by Your Name
I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared
dead and resurrected. No real surprise though since a proper
self-driving car is never goign to work and most people don't want one
anyway, and there's nothing really that Apple can add to for a normal
car (electric or otherwise). Same with the Sony car.

Is anyone really surprised by this? An Apple car makes as much sense as a
General Motors cell phone.

That's exactly what Blackberry said.

Blackberry said that an Apple car makes as much sense as a
General Motors cell phone?

Wow.

You're really that ignorant, are you?

I actually have to spell out that Blackberry was talking about the iPhone...

...do I?

[Alan Browne]

Post by Tyrone

Post by Alan

Post by Tyrone

Post by Your Name
I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared
dead and resurrected. No real surprise though since a proper
self-driving car is never goign to work and most people don't want one
anyway, and there's nothing really that Apple can add to for a normal
car (electric or otherwise). Same with the Sony car.

Is anyone really surprised by this? An Apple car makes as much sense as a
General Motors cell phone.

That's exactly what Blackberry said.

Blackberry said that an Apple car makes as much sense as a
General Motors cell phone?

Whoosh!

Post by Tyrone
So they agree with me. Great.

Whoosh-squared!

[Your Name]

Post by Tyrone

Post by Your Name
I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared
dead and resurrected. No real surprise though since a proper
self-driving car is never goign to work and most people don't want one
anyway, and there's nothing really that Apple can add to for a normal
car (electric or otherwise). Same with the Sony car.

Is anyone really surprised by this? An Apple car makes as much sense

It makes no sense, bu hasn't stopped Sony jumping on the bandwagon too.
Basically these companies think that an electric car is not really any
different to any other electric appliance, which of course is wrong.

Post by Tyrone
as a General Motors cell phone.

The Swedish electric car company Polestar does want to make it's own
mobile phone (more likely a rebadged and tweaked phone from another
company, similar to how many cellphone connection companies, like
Vodafone, sell "their own" phone) ...

Polestar Wants to Sell Its Own Smartphone for Its Cars
The Sweden-based company has decided to launch its own
smartphone with an eye to creating a smoother user
experience across car and tech.

<https://www.thedrive.com/news/polestar-wants-to-sell-its-own-smartphone-for-its-cars-yes-really>

Post by Tyrone
How about a Microsoft lawnmower?

An actual lawnmower, no (not yet!), but you can get a Lawnmower
Simulator "game" to play on your Windows PC or XBox, among other
platforms.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if these tech companies moved into robo
lawnmowers ... stupid idea though.

Post by Tyrone
Anyone interested in a Samsung bacon cheeseburger?

There are some robot-burger-making systems aound. :-)

Post by Tyrone
Of course not. Whoever kept this absurd project going at Apple for all these
years is a poster child for The Peter Principle.

There are idiots in high places all over the world coming up with
ridiculous ideas.

Some years ago a bunch of fools managed to get a sports stadium built
near here, claiming the usual garbage about it being a great
opportunity and good for the local community. A couple of years after
building it, they were unsurprising deep in debt and making massive
losses, so the Auckland City Council stupidly decided to step in and
bail them out. More years of loses and a couple more bail out "loans",
and the Auckalnd City Council eventually even more stupidly took over
running the stadium. It now still runs at a massive loss every year,
hosts hardly any events so just sits empty 99% of the year. Now the
Auckland City Council is talking about demolishing it and selling the
land. The useless thing should never have been approved in the first
place. :-\

But wait, it gets even sillier. That is just one of four or five big
sports stadiums around the city that are barely used. Yet there are
morons, including some on the Auckland City Council and the government,
who keep saying Auckland "needs" another, bigger, sports stadium ...
why?!? It too will just sit empty and rarely used, and just be another
complete waste of tax-payer's money. :-(

[Jörg Lorenz]

Post by Your Name
The Swedish electric car company Polestar

Polestar belongs to Geely which is a Chinese Company. Even Volvo is a
Chinese company today. BTW: Geely bought out Volvo's participation in
Polestar.

[Alan Browne]

Post by Your Name

On Feb 27, 2024 at 4:42:11 PM EST, "Your Name"

Post by Your Name
I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared
dead and resurrected. No real surprise though since a proper
self-driving car is never goign to work and most people don't want one
anyway, and there's nothing really that Apple can add to for a normal
car (electric or otherwise). Same with the Sony car.

Is anyone really surprised by this? An Apple car makes as much sense

It makes no sense, bu hasn't stopped Sony jumping on the bandwagon too.
Basically these companies think that an electric car is not really any
different to any other electric appliance, which of course is wrong.

Sony are partnering with Honda who make good cars.

(IMO Sony have the better part of this bargain... I don't see them
delivering much more than an infotainment system here...)

[Bernd Froehlich]

Post by Tyrone
How about a Microsoft lawnmower?

The day Microsoft has a product that doesn´t suck will be the day they
produce vakuum cleaners 8-)

[Alan B]

Post by Bernd Froehlich

Post by Tyrone
How about a Microsoft lawnmower?

The day Microsoft has a product that doesn´t suck will be the day they
produce vakuum cleaners 8-)

Personally I'd like to see improvements in public transport, then I wouldn't
need to own and drive a car. Pigs will probably learn to fly in my area before
that happens though :(

[Your Name]

Post by Alan B
Personally I'd like to see improvements in public transport, then I wouldn't
need to own and drive a car. Pigs will probably learn to fly in my area before
that happens though :(

There will never be an efficient and effective public transport system.
It can get close for the few people that only need to go from A to B
and back again, especially within a limited area within a big city, but
for the majority of people it isn't any good.

The public transport here in Auckland, New Zealand's biuggest city, is
attrocious, even ignoring all the usual reasons for not using it (need
to drop kids off to school, collect groceries, etc.).

[Alan Browne]

Post by Your Name

Post by Alan B
Personally I'd like to see improvements in public transport, then I wouldn't
need to own and drive a car. Pigs will probably learn to fly in my area before
that happens though :(

There will never be an efficient and effective public transport system.
It can get close for the few people that only need to go from A to B and
back again, especially within a limited area within a big city, but for
the majority of people it isn't any good.
The public transport here in Auckland, New Zealand's biuggest city, is
attrocious, even ignoring all the usual reasons for not using it (need
to drop kids off to school, collect groceries, etc.).

Public transport works well, effectively, efficiently and economically
in many cities in the world. Just because Auckland fails at it, doesn't
mean others don't succeed at it.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Your Name

Post by Alan B
Personally I'd like to see improvements in public transport, then I
wouldn't need to own and drive a car. Pigs will probably learn to fly
in my area before that happens though :(

There will never be an efficient and effective public transport system.

*Laughs in Portland, Oregon public transit*

Post by Your Name
It can get close for the few people that only need to go from A to B
and back again, especially within a limited area within a big city,
but for the majority of people it isn't any good.

Nonsense. You clearly haven't lived in a city with good public
transport. In my city, literal millions of people use public transport
regularly to get all around the city and neighboring suburbs. We have
excellent public transport that is both cheap and efficient:

<https://trimet.org/about/performance.htm>

Post by Your Name
The public transport here in Auckland, New Zealand's biuggest city, is
attrocious

That's not representative of all public transport.

[Alan Browne]

Post by Bernd Froehlich

Post by Tyrone
How about a Microsoft lawnmower?

The day Microsoft has a product that doesn´t suck will be the day they
produce vakuum cleaners 8-)

Since Ballmer finally left (praise the old gods and the new), and
Nadella took over, it has become the 2nd largest most valuable public
co. (passing Apple).

That is because of high product quality and execution.

[Alan]

Post by Alan Browne

Post by Bernd Froehlich

Post by Tyrone
How about a Microsoft lawnmower?

The day Microsoft has a product that doesn´t suck will be the day they
produce vakuum cleaners 8-)

Since Ballmer finally left (praise the old gods and the new), and
Nadella took over, it has become the 2nd largest most valuable public
co. (passing Apple).
That is because of high product quality and execution.

As someone who works in tech support and sees Microsoft's shit on a
daily basis, I have to say:

BWWWWAAAGHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

[Alan Browne]

Post by Alan

Post by Alan Browne

Post by Bernd Froehlich

Post by Tyrone
How about a Microsoft lawnmower?

The day Microsoft has a product that doesn´t suck will be the day they
produce vakuum cleaners 8-)

Since Ballmer finally left (praise the old gods and the new), and
Nadella took over, it has become the 2nd largest most valuable public
co. (passing Apple).
That is because of high product quality and execution.

As someone who works in tech support and sees Microsoft's shit on a
BWWWWAAAGHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Bias overflow alert.

I've used MS products since the early DOS days for work and for home.
And yes, they were capable of a lot of crap. Now Windows is matured and
stable (if not very pleasing from a computer user/programmers POV).

Azure (Cloud) is over 1/3 of their revenue and steadily growing as it
adds services in pursuit of AWS.

Their 2nd biggest revenue maker is Office products (23%). And these are
very good quality mainstays in business. (Word, Excel, Powerpoint,
Outlook, Exchange...).

Windows OS is only 12% of the overall revenue stream. Also a mainstay
(though gradually losing place to Mac OS and Linux variants.

Gaming is still less than 10%.

[Alan]

Post by Alan Browne

Post by Alan

Post by Alan Browne

Post by Bernd Froehlich

Post by Tyrone
How about a Microsoft lawnmower?

The day Microsoft has a product that doesn´t suck will be the day they
produce vakuum cleaners 8-)

Since Ballmer finally left (praise the old gods and the new), and
Nadella took over, it has become the 2nd largest most valuable public
co. (passing Apple).
That is because of high product quality and execution.

As someone who works in tech support and sees Microsoft's shit on a
BWWWWAAAGHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Bias overflow alert.

Ahhhh...nope!

Post by Alan Browne
I've used MS products since the early DOS days for work and for home.
And yes, they were capable of a lot of crap.  Now Windows is matured and
stable (if not very pleasing from a computer user/programmers POV).

"Stable" is not the only metric by which products must be judged.

Post by Alan Browne
Azure (Cloud) is over 1/3 of their revenue and steadily growing as it
adds services in pursuit of AWS.

Which doesn't support a WORD of your bullshit about "high product
quality and execution".

Post by Alan Browne
Their 2nd biggest revenue maker is Office products (23%).  And these are
very good quality mainstays in business. (Word, Excel, Powerpoint,
Outlook, Exchange...).

Dude...

...on a support call with a Microsoft rep yesterday, I was literally
told that one of their flagship problems for business "still had a lot
of problems" (yes: I'm paraphrasing, but accurately).

Post by Alan Browne
Windows OS is only 12% of the overall revenue stream.  Also a mainstay
(though gradually losing place to Mac OS and Linux variants.
Gaming is still less than 10%.

Supra "doesn't support".

[Alan Browne]

Post by Alan

Post by Alan Browne

Post by Alan

Post by Alan Browne

Post by Bernd Froehlich

Post by Tyrone
How about a Microsoft lawnmower?

The day Microsoft has a product that doesn´t suck will be the day they
produce vakuum cleaners 8-)

Since Ballmer finally left (praise the old gods and the new), and
Nadella took over, it has become the 2nd largest most valuable
public co. (passing Apple).
That is because of high product quality and execution.

As someone who works in tech support and sees Microsoft's shit on a
BWWWWAAAGHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Bias overflow alert.

Ahhhh...nope!

Post by Alan Browne
I've used MS products since the early DOS days for work and for home.
And yes, they were capable of a lot of crap.  Now Windows is matured
and stable (if not very pleasing from a computer user/programmers POV).

"Stable" is not the only metric by which products must be judged.

Post by Alan Browne
Azure (Cloud) is over 1/3 of their revenue and steadily growing as it
adds services in pursuit of AWS.

Which doesn't support a WORD of your bullshit about "high product
quality and execution".

In cloud services you either execute well or die fast - people can move
to AWS in about the time it takes to blow their nose. Yet that business
continues to grow steadily.

Post by Alan

Post by Alan Browne
Their 2nd biggest revenue maker is Office products (23%).  And these
are very good quality mainstays in business. (Word, Excel, Powerpoint,
Outlook, Exchange...).

Dude...
...on a support call with a Microsoft rep yesterday, I was literally
told that one of their flagship problems for business "still had a lot
of problems" (yes: I'm paraphrasing, but accurately).

Sample of one again.

Post by Alan

Post by Alan Browne
Windows OS is only 12% of the overall revenue stream.  Also a mainstay
(though gradually losing place to Mac OS and Linux variants.
Gaming is still less than 10%.

Supra "doesn't support".

Yes, I'm sure all issues with MS are easy for you to amplify.

I did have an issue in the fall with Office install on M3 Mac using an
older intel Mac based license. A call with MS took about 10 minutes to
sort it out (version issue0. Very nice, well done, patient and all is
good).

Sample of one, but then I rarely have issue with MS products that I
can't resolve by a bit of internet sleuthing.

[Alan]

Post by Alan Browne

Post by Alan

Post by Alan Browne

Post by Alan

Post by Alan Browne

Post by Bernd Froehlich

Post by Tyrone
How about a Microsoft lawnmower?

The day Microsoft has a product that doesn´t suck will be the day they
produce vakuum cleaners 8-)

Since Ballmer finally left (praise the old gods and the new), and
Nadella took over, it has become the 2nd largest most valuable
public co. (passing Apple).
That is because of high product quality and execution.

As someone who works in tech support and sees Microsoft's shit on a
BWWWWAAAGHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Bias overflow alert.

Ahhhh...nope!

Post by Alan Browne
I've used MS products since the early DOS days for work and for home.
And yes, they were capable of a lot of crap.  Now Windows is matured
and stable (if not very pleasing from a computer user/programmers POV).

"Stable" is not the only metric by which products must be judged.

Post by Alan Browne
Azure (Cloud) is over 1/3 of their revenue and steadily growing as it
adds services in pursuit of AWS.

Which doesn't support a WORD of your bullshit about "high product
quality and execution".

In cloud services you either execute well or die fast - people can move
to AWS in about the time it takes to blow their nose.  Yet that business
continues to grow steadily.

Post by Alan

Post by Alan Browne
Their 2nd biggest revenue maker is Office products (23%).  And these
are very good quality mainstays in business. (Word, Excel,
Powerpoint, Outlook, Exchange...).

Dude...
...on a support call with a Microsoft rep yesterday, I was literally
told that one of their flagship problems for business "still had a lot
of problems" (yes: I'm paraphrasing, but accurately).

Sample of one again.

Post by Alan

Post by Alan Browne
Windows OS is only 12% of the overall revenue stream.  Also a
mainstay (though gradually losing place to Mac OS and Linux variants.
Gaming is still less than 10%.

Supra "doesn't support".

Yes, I'm sure all issues with MS are easy for you to amplify.
I did have an issue in the fall with Office install on M3 Mac using an
older intel Mac based license.  A call with MS took about 10 minutes to
sort it out (version issue0.  Very nice, well done, patient and all is
good).
Sample of one, but then I rarely have issue with MS products that I
can't resolve by a bit of internet sleuthing.

Sample of one back at ya.

I work with MANY people and if it weren't for the ongoing issues with
Microsoft, I'd have a lot less work.

[Alan Browne]

Post by Tyrone

Post by Your Name
I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared
dead and resurrected. No real surprise though since a proper
self-driving car is never goign to work and most people don't want one
anyway, and there's nothing really that Apple can add to for a normal
car (electric or otherwise). Same with the Sony car.

Is anyone really surprised by this? An Apple car makes as much sense as a
General Motors cell phone.
How about a Microsoft lawnmower? Anyone interested in a Samsung bacon
cheeseburger?

By your logic Apple should never have entered the iPod, iPhone, iPad and
Watch markets since they were a computer company. (Indeed when Apple
came out with the iPhone they were ridiculed from the mobile phone side).

Post by Tyrone
Of course not. Whoever kept this absurd project going at Apple for all these
years is a poster child for The Peter Principle.

Not at all. Apple are a lifestyle product company and nothing is more
"lifestyle" than a car. Further, with buckets of cash to spend, they
need to look at new markets.

The failure here is execution. They didn't have a hard plan and
switched captains too many times. Further, from past info it is clear
they intended to partner with an established auto co. (ie: Hyundai at
one point).

Now the market is saturated, margins are thinning, prices are dropping.
Not a place Apple wants to be.

I see that Honda and Sony are partnering. The former I get, but Sony
simply has lost contact with the bicycle pedals...

[Joerg Lorenz]

Post by Your Name
I've lost count of how many times the "Apple car" has been declared
dead and resurrected.

This time it will be final: Apple has no unique selling propostion (any
more). They do not have an advantage in any relevant field of producing
modern electrical cars. Apple cannot add value.

The cap ex involved to manufacture cars in the millions and distribute
them against the big Asian and European companies on the world market is
a super high risk adventure - even for Apple. It is so simple.